
Wednesday, 27th January 2010 - 11:10CET
Gay Rights Movement objects to President's comments
The Malta Gay Rights Movement has complained about statements made by, among others, President George Abela, during the national conference on the family "yesterday, today, tomorrow" held over the past weekend.
"The first address of the day was delivered by President George Abela. One of his first misguided statements was a definition of family that was so narrow as to exclude a significant minority. Dr Abela defined the family as a man and a woman, in a life-long committment, linked to procreation. He also emphasised the need for both the need of a mother and a father for the family to exist," the movemnet said.
"Whether intentionally or not, he therefore excluded all those married couples who could not have children including childless couples, adoptive parents and foster parents; single parents; cohabiting couples and any children they might have; and of course gay and lesbian parents," the moverment said.
It added that on explaining the understanding of marriage in Maltese law, the President held that this was understood to mean the natural union of a man and a woman based on the difference between the sexes.
"The implication is that a union between two people of the same sex is of course unnatural. Clinging to this ‘understanding’ is a failure to acknowledge that, while up to 40or so odd years ago homosexuality was deemed unnatural and a mental illness, science and research have taught us that this is not the case. Homosexuality is simply a natural and normal variant in human nature as well as in other species.
"While there are plenty of countries that have failed to take on this knowledge and continue to criminalise homosexuality, we were under the impression that in line with other Western nations, Malta had actually moved on," the Gay Rights Movement added.
It said that the President had also questioned whether children adopted by same-sex couples could lead to them suffering psychological and social harm.
"The President seems to once again have ignored research in this area which clearly indicates that the sexual orientation of parents has no bearing on the development of children. It is parenting qualities such as love, commitment, responsibility and the ability to provide for the needs of the child that matter. To suggest that simply for the fact of being gay or lesbian one causes harm to children is as ridiculous as stating that no harm will befall children if their carer happens to be heterosexual," the movement said.
"His question of whether same-sex unions could possibly be called marriage is surely a moot point, since this is already the case in at least five Council of Europe Member States, namely Holland, Sweden, Norway, Belgium and Spain. The question is not therefore a matter of definition but of prejudice and discrimination, that is, who we choose to include or exclude as a society and on what basis."
The movement said the conference failed entirely to engage critically the subject matter its title portrayed. There was only one form of family being considered. All others were demonised and shot down a priori as was made evident throughout the day in the presentations, panels and interviews. It was in fact nothing more than propaganda for a conservative government’s agenda and the religious right that sits solidly behind it, present in full force.








RSS
Comments
I'm sure you are a great family and that you will love your child as much as the rest of us.
@ those who are against gay marriages and adoptions
Some are using the argument that gay couples can't have offspring. They say you can't have a marriage if you can't have children. This is PLAIN STUPID and contradictory. This claim would mean that childless couples cannot be families. A marriage is the union between a couple who love eachother - end of!!!
And if you think that a child in a homosexual couple is at a risk of getting the "wrong" idea of a family - you're not thinking hard enough, no wait, you're not thinking at all.
How many gay people are the offspring of gay couples??????? If this is not enough proof that sexuality is not a choice and thus not something which can be against morals, then I don't know what is.
I am gay & have my own family. My partner & I used a known doner to have our beautiful daughter. You people think whatever you like but we're a happy family & our family who support our decisions can see with their own eyes what a happy family we are & how we are raising our daughter better than most of man/woman parents out there.
Whether you like it or not & whether you accept us or not, we're here to stay & you'll be seeing more of us in the future.
What ignorant people don't think about is that by not respecting & accepting gays, you could be harming your own children. You don't know that your child won't be gay, do you? So isn't it that by making things difficult for gay people, you could be making things hard for your own child.
Please people, think before you judge & comment as no one knows what the future holds for all.
Society expects to be able to dictate to people who do not fit into the -married with kids- "norm" (which is actually not as much a norm as people are led to believe) yet when it suits (maybe because of personal family issues) it is suddenly okay for a man and woman to raise kids as a family outside of marriage. And the last time i checked a single mother or lone parent is not a man and woman in a relationship. Nowhere in my comment do I say that a man and woman having kids outside of marriage cannot be a "proper caring family" (your words not mine-define that). Either your English comprehension is lacking or you have purposely ignored all the points I made to make a point on something I did not state.
J Cassar
The fact that couple bear children out of wedlock doesn't mean that they're not proper caring families!!!
Excellent post/point.
It's all well and good having an opinion but surely that opinion has to be based on experience as opposed to, "I was told". to think this way.
"Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too."
— Voltaire
Lets not degenerate into senseless arguments - I never said that I live without morals or boundaries, I merely showed you a scientific study proving how natural homosexuality is. Whether I believe in god or not doesn't affect the results that were found. I would like to ask you though, your opinion on other minority groups? Black people had received the short end of the stick in this respect for centuries because it was accepted social belief that they were subhuman. Thankfully nowadays (most) people realize this to be untrue, I just wonder when you might consider the same of homosexual people.
Mr D Abdilla
My father left us when I was about 5 and my mother has been raising my brother and I by herself for the past 15 years. In you're definition are we not a family?
I am tempted to reply to some of the online comments but it is not the right forum. Many of the commentators have probably never met or talked to gay people. They have strong convinctions based on ideas, impressions and prejudices but not on facts. Min ma jridx jisma' hu l-akbar trux.
On a happier note: Beyond the cacophony of online diatribes society is evolving to a better place. Yes a better place. Those of us who believe that we are losing our values should look into our recent history - one of poverty misery, domestic abuse and rampant prositution involving underage children. Life is better and morally healthier nowadays than it has ever been. And serioulsy some people who get all worked up about people leading different lives than the majority need to get a life.
Lat night I saw this T V Movie called Prayers For Bobby, which in my opinion should be a must televise film on any Maltese public T V station.I strongly recomend that you read all about this movie and the story behind it , watch it, and just as importantly read the reviewr's comments which in my opinion may befit your personality?????????????
I also recomend this movie to all interested, it is simply heartwreching matreial.
click on the links below and the rest speaks for itself.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1073510/
http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/prayers-bobby
Well, if everyone had the same ideas like you have, the human race would be extinct in no time at all because, and i'd like to quote myself again, i never have heard of 2 gays or lesbians that could produce offspring together.
You can say whatever you like, and come up with any argument you think is right, but facts are facts and gay couples are not able to have children i.e. they are not meant to have children, it just goes against the law of nature.....and before you ask/accuse me, I am not a Catholic or any other religious freak, I just use a little bit more logic than you apparently.
seems also to bring out the 'best' in people…
An enlightened comment made by you, inspirational. Thankyou.
If you are against homosexuals it does not mean that I have a problem with my sexuality and could be a homosexual myself. I can assure you that i am sure of my self 100% & in a relationship with a woman. The excuses is science and stupid research that are only harming the world. Homosexuality is unatural. Marriage is between a man and a woman and kids are not to be brought up by homosexual parents. Kids are not toys. They homosexuals stop trying to mess up the world. Just becaused your messed up it does not mean the whole world is like you. You can live your lives they way you are living if your Gay nothing you can do but don't expect marriage & adoption. Don't ruin families leave them alone!
Am waiting for a simple YES or NO?
Here is my last comment but I couldn't resist!!!
To all Catholics sprouting hatred against homosexuals (like C Zammit, RBusuttil, Martin Farrugia, etc.): If I am not mistaken the true God is all about love, compassion, altruism, tolerance, friendship, respect, etc. I think your Catholic Church believes in a God who is full of hatred, intolerance, revenge, pretentions, etc. I thank my God that I don't believe in your God.
@ MONICA VELLA - pack up and leave?? because of close minded people?? malta is full of people like that but there are some considerate people aswel who accept people who are different. no "WE" did not approve of his speech, you did! i believe in human rights n equality in the sense of discrimination, he is making us sound like some third world country! - and this is our president?? shocking!
I want to ask the follwoing questions:
Why homophbic people are afraid of homosexual people? Why is sexuality so scary for them? Why do they feel threatened? Do they have a sexual identity problem? Why do they make such matter an issue? .....I have my own conclusions but I am sure The Times will censor it.
@ Victor Vella ......Sir I do hope that your heart and soul find some love and light because you are obviously very bitter.
@ Martin Farrugia....I have been in a loving and committed relationship for six years now do you expect me to take your statements about what is natural and what is not seriously ???!!!
Many Homosexual Activist & Profs will tell you "Homosexuality is found also in animals and many other species. Thus it's a Normal thing."
I'll Gladly ask them: "How Many of these animals have procreated kids? How many of them have adopted kids from other animals?"
And I think President Dr Abela never intended to included Families (man & woman) who cant have kids because of health problems in this situation.
The same goes for single parent's. It's in the name!! it's not a Family its a Single Parent raising a Kid, it gets beneficial aids from the government aswell since it's not a family and the father cant help the mother with his income....
When then they marry each other and live together, then they are a family.
Man and other animals do lots of things which might seem to be odd to outside observers.
In Bonobos for example (our closest living primate species) there is prostitution, war, incest and adultery apart from the values that we humans say that we value such as compassion, altruism and love.There is also of course homosexuality.
Evolutionary theory states that if a trait is a disadvantage it will be 'weeded out' through natural selection. For some reason, that is still as yet unclear, homosexuality keeps appearing. So the only conclusion that one can draw is that there is some evolutionary advantage to it. It is now up to us human animals to demonstrate our best values and show compassion and understanding by making the lives of homosexuals as trouble free as possible. In the same way that we do to heterosexuals.
If so I'm sure this official, documented article will prove most enlightening:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
And just in case you can't bring yourself to click it (it isn't really intended for the closed minded or ignorant in any event):
"No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist"
Homosexuality exists in EVERY LIVING ORGANISM.
With the exception of organisms that do not have sex (abomination!)
Also little note: homosexuality is found everywhere in nature, especially in higher mammals - unless your god did that just for fun too
the gay gene story is a hoax. Besides, homsexuality in animals does not give any valid substance to your argument. What a great example you mention but you forget that Animals eat their offspring too, should we also start to imitate them ?
Homosexual behaviour in animals has a reason domination over the other.
PS- Keep in mind that even liberal states in the USA are banning gay marriages.
Science is not greater than God.God is greater than science!!! So whatever modern decovery no one can challenge GOD! No one can offend the public & homosexuals are doing so by asking for these rights!
"Crass contradiction of terms, a variant can never be 'normal' "
So according to you, the majority of Europeans (us included, and especially Nordic people) are all abnormal, since the "normal" (and by normal I mean the original) skin and hair colour of humans was a dark brown.
"By the same argument we should all eat dung because a billion flies can't possibly be all wrong. "
This is just laughable... Qed thallat il-hass mal-bass. Besides, we can't even agree within our own species, let alone cross-species
of course they'll have to take a lot of gratuitous and unnecessary hell - as long as there are people like you, who will also poison their children with this kind of attitide, around.so thoughtful of you!
All those who in 2010 think that homosexuals are freaks of nature, simply do not UNDERSTAND (or do not want), what happened to the 'Y' chromosome's function at conception. How can you EVER take it against your own child or anyone else's!
Evolution teaches the open minded of the human species something else. Those who do not evolve with nature become EXTINCT! The narrow minded are today's dinosaurs.
Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time because it is Natural! When something goes wrong with Nature, it is another natural living survival of the species! The fact that reproduction in humans still requires a man and a woman, is only because so far Nature has not found another way! And that is why human children still need both male and female roles to identify with. Not because the Maltese President says so!
Science is what always tries to make sense of human NATURE! So when it comes to state, religion, culture and tradition, please save the talk because these do not conform neither with evolution nor with science!
Apart from that it is a bit selfish of these gay rights groups if they are going to fight for the right to adopt children cause one can only imagine what those children will go through while growing up!
Of course it is!
'Homosexuality is simply a natural and normal variant in human nature as well as in other species'.
Crass contradiction of terms, a variant can never be 'normal'
'"His question of whether same-sex unions could possibly be called marriage is surely a moot point, since this is already the case in at least five Council of Europe Member States, namely Holland, Sweden, Norway, Belgium and Spain.'
Right he is! By the same argument we should all eat dung because a billion flies can't possibly be all wrong.
Why can't just live by the rules that Mother Nature gave us? - nothing that goes against the laws of Nature will ever last.
"Please leave the history of these islands alone, abortion, gay marriages and especially the worst aberration of all adoptions by gays will find it very very difficult on these islands to gain ground. "
So what you are saying is that adoption by two loving homosexual men or women is worse than abortion.... Wow... we have hit a new high here...
The President is misguided, here comes the MGRM to guide him accordingly.
For a brief overview of researched human studies go here: http://malta-exposed.blogspot.com/2010/01/lesbian-mothers.html
i was present for the speech and it was really remarkable. leave all these comments behind. some people are never happy an always ready to attack anybody. Very well done.
To all: I want to make a point clear here. Homosexuals never asked for recognition from the church, they want recognition (of same sex marriages) from the state because since they are taxpayers, they expect to have the same rights as hetero couples. I am single and amongst others I am paying more tax than a married couple and for what? ...for their children allowance, widows' pensions, single parents relief, free social housing to them...what do I get?...nothing.
Are you all perfect ??..let me pose you some questions..
If you were in an abusive marriage you have children, wouldn't you do your best to take your "FAMILY" away from all of that?
If the Mother or Father died as many the cases, in your eyes wouldn't that be still a FAMILY?
If your son or daughter turns around and says they are gay , do you think as a Mother and Father you wouldn't support that child within your FAMILY.?
What about if you son or daughter has gender dysfunction? would you shun them from your FAMILY?
FAMILY for me means being brought up with love, care and respect...My sons have been brought up by their Single Mother, in a caring loving "FAMILY" with values.
To all those here on the blog that feel they are perfect and holier then thou, let me remind you this from the Bible.."LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE". and this was Jesus , son of GOD.
Love, care and respect all human kind.. only then you will find peace in your heart.
I take the term Natural to implicate something that is the rule and occurring freely in nature. Presuming nature to somehow turn homosexual as a rule, all species would become extinct in one generation.
The law dictates that Gays have the right to exist; granted, but I request they do not abuse my intelligence.
You created a man and a woman.
I, hope that these two paragraphs will explain all what our president had in mind.
2)I was braught up by a man and a woman and i have no intention to ever consider them my primary family now that they have refused who i am.
3)You should really do some research about the natural world because yes there are animals that reproduce without the need of both sexes, or two individuals for that matter. Though most of the time it's many women, many men and many babies.
4)(i'm a woman) when being with a man makes me so disgusted with myself, how dare you tell me it's natural for me?
5)When we talk about love we are refering to the emotion, not as some of you want to imply, sex.(yeah i said it)
6)tell me one way in which civil union between same sexes effects the rights of married couples?
7)finally, i'd like to introduce you to evolution. look it up. it's hilarious. there was no adam and eve and god only started beign God when a bunch of people invented religion to make some kind of social order.
Get a life and let us fight for ours.
From the rest of your comment, you come across as being a very nice person. May I recommend you refine your views on this part though as there's no between making eggs or 'seed' and actual parenting. I assume social services will take their time to fit in a gay couple within their assessment metric and adjust it according to actual performance.
An American study suggests that themore homophobic you are, the more careful you should be to ask yourself whether you are gay or not. That's a good point, dear Mr J Farrugia.
My second point: so, because you have, let us allow for the sake of argument, a 10% minority, you expect them 'to keep quiet'? Is this the extent of your values of love for democracy? Is this the tolerance that you preach through your so-called tradional values? You are nothing but hypocrisy personified in you.
What 'inclination' are you talking about? It appears that you know a lot about homosexuality and therefoe, I cannot help it if I come to some conclusion!
More law & oreder in the country
Saves our culture & religion
Diciplin the people & we need it as everyone is out of control like babylon! This is no scandle as many european countries have right-wing parties in power in Italy , Britain , Germany & Netherlands and could be many more. In Britain there is the BNP Germany NPD , Lega Nord Italy. So why not in Malta? We can't have a minority of athiests and homosexuals controlling the country!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany
www.bnp.org.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_Nord
Hope the times of malta does not censor these as there is nothing wrong with them. There is nothing wrong with these parties! they just have an opinion and people can vote for them or not. It's a democratic choice!!!!!
What lost battle? look what has happened in the USA even the most liberal states are banning same sex marriages. You live in a world of yours thinking that everyone has your ideas but the truth and the real world is against you. Only some politician desperate for votes might give you form of legal recognition but even the politician has his limits, thats a referendum by the citizens on one particular issue, just as it happens it the USA.
Please leave the history of these islands alone, abortion, gay marriages and especially the worst aberration of all adoptions by gays will find it very very difficult on these islands to gain ground.
Finally Well done Mr. President
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_marriage
This is truth & you can't have a govermen that gives rights to gay to marry and offend the public. To men kissing in public offends me the same as many freaky atheists are being offended by the crucifix because they know he is the truth and try to eliminate him by removing his image from public. He is still here and will still be. His laws are there and even if some silly secular goverments are changing his laws there is still a final judgment in which one has to go trough. To gays getting married is an offence to the majority of the public if so it should pass trough a referendum given to the maltese people.Yes gays to pay taxes but that does not mean they canmakea mess!
Ever heard of LIVE AND LET LIVE? Let them live in peace. They have neglected rights.
May I ask why all this furore? Not a question many would like to ask, let alone attempt to answer. Why do we avoid the question, simple, it is closer to home than we would like to admit to ourselves, let alone to others.
Throw the first homophobic stone the man that does not have a homosexual, or two, in his family, extended family or circle of acquaintances. we may love them to bits, but somehow do not admit it publicly - we are rather cowards, that's no secret. Even closer to home; what if I am married (hetero relation) and realise I am homosexual? It has happened, does happen, will always happen, especially in smaller societies.
My point: Homosexuality is here to say, like it or hate it. It is no illness or condition - it is nature, God's nature. People may be very cruel, homophobic, afraid or repressed, as is obvious here; but that gives them no right to judge/disrespect other human beings.
What if your son were gay ? Would you throw the stone ?
Thank you :)
I am fortunate in having a rapport with my natural children and unnatural (does that answer your question?) in that they never have to hide anything from me, especially if it's hurting them.
They don't gain "more". Parenting isn't a competition. There are good parents and there are those who should never be allowed to have children but we can't stop that. (perhaps our efforts would be best spent there)
Children don't ask to be born and they certainly don't ask to be born unwanted or born into abuse, or neglect. The whole gist of this editorial is "family" and what constitutes a family and who should have that privilege. That in itself is wrong. None of us has the right to dictate what a family is. If one person or two people can show that they have what it takes to deal with all of the problems an adopted child or children bring then they should be applauded and not condemned because as we all know, parenting is not the easiest job in the World.
The rewards however are priceless :)
Except one thing. You mention 'attraction'. Homosexuality like heterosexuality goes by far beyond 'attraction'. Gays can only form a deep emotional bond - what we commonly call 'love'- with people of the same gender. Even if there is no sex involved that love is still there. Talking of attraction etc., makes ignorant people like the Farrugias in this comments section think of homosexuality as something dirty, because they were brought up (poor sods) to think that sex and physical attraction is something sinful.
So let's talk about the love that we have seen gay and lesbian people lavish on their partners and children!
Mr J: Why don t you walk a mile in the shoes of a gay man and then see what happens. Reading your comment hurt my head. I felt like an anvil was being pressed against it. Luckily I have common sense. But others may find your words hurtful in a different way. Think of the gay teen right now who hears your words every day. Would you call them words of love? You dont know what you are talking about. You have no idea what we re talking about. And you will never want to educate yourself. I hope, to whatever God there is out there, that no politician is like you.
"Progress will be achieved once we have opened our mind and learn live in peace with our neighbours, be it gay, black, muslim etc. Just the way Jesus intended... I'm an atheist, but even I know that this is what Jesus was trying to teach us all along..."
I have no problem with this statement. I have worked with every denomination and never refused to live in peace with my neighbours.
@David Wain
I do not blame anyone of having different sexual orientation. I have no issues with same sex relationships but I find it very difficult to call a same sex relationship as a marriage. This is maybe were we disagree. I am a progressive person and have fought for equal rights but society must also acknowledge that nature created certain differences that must be respected. I wonder whether you would agree to call for breastfeeding by men too. Nature is nature and we cannot create a new order to satisfy these so called minority rights. We cannot accept that giving rights to a minority would end up in a deterioration of the rights of the majority.
Marriage is now fragile. It serves no purpose to undermine it further. It will not win friends. At day's end - union, marriage, relationship - they are only words.
Joke taken - no need to apologise :)
Ms. Assure you, at school I have suffered for many many things, bullying etc.. and my parents (M/F :) ) to this day (I am middle aged) have never be told about it.
Don't assume children won't suffer amongst other children.
I am assuming though, that in your case it is different - no adopted, but they were your naturual children...if not, this is my turn to apologise.
However I do feel that adopted children should not be adopted by gay couples. I dont think that they gain more than gaining with hetero (m/F) couples. Yes there are bad couples, but you find those in any kind of union.
It takes a women's egg and men's seed to make children, not two eggs or two seeds. It is not people who are prejudiced (only) with gays but so is nature.
My point is only about children since about marrying etc.. I have no problem with gays getting married (call it unionised).
It would be ideal that gays fight for their right to marry but leave innocent children alone (especially if these are not offspring from a previous relationship(M/F)
I laid my bed and sleeping in it and so has all and am happy so you laid yours and be happy too please. No offence either way I am happy and wish all to be happy in the life they choose I happen to have all types of friends.
@ Jimmy Magro, the progress achieved through same-sex marriages would be the emancipation and the granting of equal rights to persons who have are no different than heterosexual citizens other than feeling attracted to persons of the same sex. That is all. It might not be significant progress for you, but it would be for what is a very large minority. I would also be careful in claiming that your views are the views of the majority.
What everyone fails to realise is that J. Farrugia, T. Camilleri, M Tabone, Giov De Martino, the President, the Church et al are fighting a lost battle and just delaying the inevitable. Our history has shown us time and time again that it is only a matter of time and the same goes with divorce. We are always 20 to 30 years late in this country, but most of the time we do get there...... eventually.
"What happens when children are asked for mummy's name in class?"
They ask which one? :)
I apologize, that was flippant.
They answer the question and if it were any of ours they would give both names.
"They tell them George or in lesbian terms, father's name would be susan? Will they suffer at school with that?"
Children raised in homosexual families have two Mummy's or two Daddy's. They also have doting Grandparents, Uncles and Aunts. I'd defy anyone to tell our lot they are not "family"
Children are far more accepting than adults and I can hand on heart report that not one of our children (eldest 27) has ever been bullied or made to feel different because they have two mummy's.
I had a little girl ask me not so long ago if my partner was, "kinda like your husband" I smiled and said "uh huh, kinda", she chuckled and went on her way. My heart skipped a beat. The innocence and acceptance of children. It's such a shame that some adults destroy that innocence (not just with homosexuals) with unfounded judgments.
First of all I want to commend you on your very logical and enlightening post.
The problem with these fanatics is that they will always bend the scripture to their means. They will probably say homosexual people are born straight, but sin made them gay... I am 22 and most of my same-age straight male friends still see homosexuality as an abomination unto the Lord! I have almost given up on the mentality of my fellow Maltese - the only thing keeping my hope from dying out is the few open-minded friends/people who are fighting (or trying to) against this very same reasoning.
@Jimmy Magro
Progress will be achieved once we have opened our mind and learn live in peace with our neighbours, be it gay, black, muslim etc. Just the way Jesus intended... I'm an atheist, but even I know that this is what Jesus was trying to teach us all along...
hahahaha
Deuteronomy 13:7-12:
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield… but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you…
let people be how they want,how they naturally are..if it goes against your religion then so what?in that case all who dont agree with religion should be able to stop what we dont agree with....religion = hypocrassy,division,false information,hatred for all that's differant.
leave it inside the church
a man and a woman with children
a man and a woman without children (by choice or not)
a male single parent
a female single parent
two men or two women with children
two men or two women without children
This is the reality; these are families today.
Your behavior is disgusting I'm sorry to say. Luckily, not everyone thinks like you do.
On another note:
I was thought by my religion teachers that being gay is a mental illness. That's not a very nice thing to say if in class there is a gay child who's desperately trying to accept himself and face the cruelty of homophobics. I suggest that teachers should keep their mouths shut if they don't want to cause a real mental illness upon their students. Being rejected and not accepted for who you are is horrible, let alone saying that because you're gay you're mentally ill.
Will you think the world will be normal if marriages took place only between men and men or women with women.
Because if we see this as normal for a minority then it could be normal for the majority too.
When this happens we would need a big sperm bank.
I think he was WRONG for saying that a family must be made up of the Husband, Wife and child/children.
He never considered single parents, unmarried parents, or childless parents be they childless by choice or not.
These in my opinion are ALL families.
Gay or lesbian couples have every right to their relationship and what they do between them is their own business and nobody elses. But i DO NOT agree with gay couples having children or with gay marrige. I believe they should have rights but calling a gay couple being called 'married' is a joke and should never be allowed.
Actual studies seem to diverge from our 'enlightened' president's views. I am startled that our president should be so prejudices against a section of our citizenry. I want to look up to the presidency as the ultimate guardian of civil society. My view of the peak is getting somewhat cloudy and jaded…
http://futurity.org/top-stories/good-parents-wanted-all-genders-apply/
The definition of a family should definitely be "The love between human beings living together in peace, respect and harmony, no matter the relationship, the sex, sexual orientation and number."
Thank you for excluding me and my partner from your definition of a 'family', however I must clearly point out that it is not your or anyone's definition that defines our family life. My partner and I are a family, even if a law is issued to define otherwise, because the notion of family is socially constructed.
Words like irresponsible, unnatural, immoral, unethical, lacking values, hedonistic, evil and soulless were used to describe my sexuality and my relationships (be they familial or professional). As a human rights advocate it is extremely worrying to see politicians continuing to support these populist tactics which very often are the contributing factor behind intolerance, hatred and violence. It is not up to the president, the pope or the Times readers and their gods to decide what is mine by right; not because I’m woman or man, queer or straight, black or white, young or old, catholic or atheist, single or married; but because I'm a human being deserving dignity and respect for who I am.
I was under the impression that justice and laws (NOT god and votes) were there to ensure these.
You cannot have the cake and eat it......
Who/What Defines a Family, ( I'll leave values out)
It's Mother Nature. Man was created man & woman was created woman. If a man falls in love with a man or a woman with an other woman, It's their business & their story.
But Pretending to be respected and recognized as a Family and taking children then that's what really goes against Nature.
Many Homosexual Activist & Profs will tell you "Homosexuality is found also in animals and many other species. Thus it's a Normal thing."
I'll Gladly ask them: "How Many of these animals have procreated kids? How many have they adopted kids?"
This society is getting immoral & valueless.
1) God created all human beings....no? Or homosexuals were created by aliens?
2) God is perfect....no?
3) You state that being homosexual is an aborration and totally wrong.....yes or no? The majority of the Catholic Paladins say YES.
4) Then if God created all humans including homosexuals and since the latter are an aborration and a mistake, mathematically and loigically it implies that God makes mistakes and creates aborrations. Using your reasoning, you have to definitely arrive to the conclusion that since God makes mistakes, He is not perfect........So please stop contradicting your own beliefs.
What about God Loves all of us ...ALL?
Well done to MGRM to bring to the attention these things. The definition of a family should be "The Unison of 2 human beings bonded by True Love". I prefer having a child raised by a responsible loving gay couple than by most of the hetero disaster families we have.
This is a subject not to be discussed by us, these are sensitive matters indeed. However the timesofmalta.com has graciously given us a platform to air our views, but I encourage people to try and discuss calmly and intelligently.
Allow me to make a point or two. I disagree totally with discrimination, I believe that the president in his speech was not being discriminatory but was merely mentioning the way we the Maltese are used to the FAMILY UNIT to be. Thankfully nowadays we form part of the EU and have freedom of movement in all the member states but that does not mean that if Spain or any other EU State allows same sex marriage, Malta has to also. With that in mind the people that wish to marry the same sex should go to these member states.
Finally I would like to state that at some point in the far future (when man would have evolved) all the malaise of today's societies would have long been forgotten.
Robert Borg
quote - "which is very important if Malta had to progress."
Without going into the merits of the debate, can Mr. Micallef enlighten the readers how progress will be achieved by allowing same sex marraiges?
I would certainly agree that minorities have rights but we cannot change our values in order to have the values of the minorities rule on the values of the majority.
I think that the PN in Government made a mistake when they recognised co-habitation in our legislation. If the Pn wanted this to happen they would ave done more good if they went all the way and introduced divorce.
With the current legislative framework, citizens have an incentive to be single mothers and co-habitate.
In the western world, the majority of the people want to have the family as the basic instituion of society as it proven without any doubts that this is the best environment for natural living conditions, for the married couple and their children. A family can be without children too.
I suggest to all not to let some sensational TV programmes to influence the whole society. They do these programmes to earn money and nothing else.
I MAKE CHOICES !!!!
Am I "DESCRMINATING" or not ?.
Is this "NORMAL" ?
What is normal, what is abnormal ?
DO I HAVE TO MAKE A "CHOICE" AGAIN ?
maybe : "pim pim seven up pim pim go out"
You are right. The MGRM simply wants something that they can never have. To be considered as a married family. Homosexuals and lesbians cannot be considered to be married because marriage implies from its very nature a man and a wife for the procreation of children, even though they may not have them through no fault of their own. This does not mean that they should be prevented from living together in a union, but to call their union a family or consider it as marriage is preposterous.
Franco Farrugia Taking our place among nations does not mean that we have to renounce to our values to adopt theirs. If they want it to be so then thanks but no thanks.
Sorry - I dont follow, there's something illogical. If your gay friend suffered under hetero couples - then by pure logic one can also infer that a normal kid would suffer under a gay couple.
You cannot just state something as real just because your friend said it (not the part where he said he suffered, I am sure he did, but the part that gay couples wont do the same thing, without knowing, to normal children)
Now the problem lies on the point that - there are more normal children in the world than gay children. More so, you have to distinguish between pure gay and others, e.g. transexuals. Who brings those up according to your gay friend (if we had to take whatever he says as vangelu)?
What happens when gays seperate - with whom shall the kids go? In heteros there is a trend for the women to take them for sometimes obvious (not always correct) reasons.
What happens when children are asked for mummy's name in class? They tell them George or in lesbian terms, father's name would be susan? Will they suffer at school with that?
Ask your friend to think it through.
Sometimes I ask myself: when will LGBT people will be treated in a good way and accepted by the Maltese society? With this pace, I think the answer to that is never...
No wonder so many young people (including myself) have left Malta for good. Small island......well you know how the rest goes.
I also believe that nature provides other forms of love between people of the same sex and that they too have a right to share their love, not excluding forming a legal union between themselves, yet I would refuse to call it marriage.
It would be painful and even sinful for a heterosexual to marry a gay or a lesbian because that wouldn’t be natural. It would be equally sinful and unnatural for a gay or a lesbian couple to raise a family by means of adopting. Nature provides a male and a female to raise progenies.
Jaħasra kemm għadna lura f'dal-pajjiż... Why all this hate and prejudice? What if your son/daughter came up to you and told you s/he was gay? Would you throw them out?
@Elena Nikolaeva
With your reasoning, a normal heterosexual couple who cannot have children naturally shouldn't even consider using artificial methods of fertilization.
People... jaħasra.. live and let live.
Children adopted by same-sex couples wouldn't have to suffer 'psychological and social harm' if everyone wasn't so homophobic all the time. Homosexuality is not an illness...just because your raised by a gay couple doesn't mean you are going to be gay also!
@Albert Camilleri - YOU are a human failure..and don't bother replying cause im not going to answer back.
God forbids.
We cannot continue stretching our definitions and values for everything according to minorities’ claims and conveniences to ensure that all diversity is treated equally and covered with the same blanket. Diversity is bound to remain and grow… but authorities should be sensible enough to treat diversity differently; to ensure proper and equitable treatment. Two men or two women living together should never replace the true (traditional/model) family but on the other hand no one is forbidding it from happening but we have to be prudent enough not to pass the wrong messages and values to future Malta. Because the President does not promote emerging definitions and values it doesn’t mean he is not allowing them… SORRY but this can also be interpreted as lack of tolerance.
I would rather have a silent President than one who speaks nonsense as he has just done.
Would you consider Oscar Wilde, Tennessee Williams, Socrates, Martina Navratilova, Elton John, Pedro Aldomovar etc to be "human failures" and "anti-natural" (must remember to send this new word to The Oxford English Dictionary )?
If I were you, I would refrain from passing judgment on the worth of others.
Gay marriage does not harm people, but discrimination against gay people (just because they are gay) does.
A family is a place where one feels safe, where love and peace and acceptance reign supreme no matter who the members are.
Labels are for food cans !!!
A friend of mine, brought up in a 'normal' heterosexual family tells me that since a young age he always felt that he was gay. He tells me now that had he had the choice he would have jumped at the opportunity of being brought up by a gay couple be them 2 men or 2 women.
Thousands of gay children in Malta are suffering at the hands of heterosexual parents. By their very nature and upbringing, gays are more open to diversity. I asked my male gay friend how he would bring up an adopted girl. "My dream would be to offer her the best in life and finally give her away at the altar to another man (or woman) - her husband.. (or wife)."
NO I say I prefer my president to say things which conflict with my beliefs on different issues but at least knowing that this person is honest with himself & everyone.
Not just another fanciful shell, like so many are giving in to be in this "country"!!!!
According to some of you, i am not a nromal family?! Even though we love each other.
Thanks - prefer if I am not a "normal" family, if by "Normal" that means I exclude others
We must yes, respect every person, for every person is created image of God, but with truth no one can play.
If I have x, I can't call it a y just because I will never be able to acquire a proper y.
When I was a little boy, many years ago, by the word 'gay' we used to mean 'cheerful'. Then you came along and 'highjacked' the word for your own purposes, changing it's meaning. And now you want to highjack the word 'family', and all it stands for.
God created man and woman, (or, if you do not believe in Him, you can use 'nature', if you believe in that!), and ordered that from their union, they form a family. If the so called 'gay' want to live together, who am I to stop them? But to claim that that 'union' is equivalent to a family! It is another 'union', with its own rights and responsibilities, but IT CAN NEVER be compared, for the simple fact that they are two diverse realities.
J.Farrugia...not in my name, thank you.
C.Calleja....that is all very well coming from you and I am just guessing that you are one of the majority and never had to fight for anything all your life? What you try to ridicule are citizens who pay the same taxes as you and the rest of the population, yet we have not the same rights that most of you take for granted!
Falling in love with a person of the same sex does not mean any different from the way I fell in love with my husband!!! If my son should realize in 20 years time that he is gay, he would have to start battling for a life, I guess!!!!
@C Calleja
If you read comments about how superior some people feel in this country just because they are hetrosexual, you'll realize WHY it is impossible not to have gay rights movement!!!! Reading these comments I honestly feel ashamed these people live in the same country with me!!!!
@J Farrugia
I cannot but agree with the message Edward Caruana Galizia forwarded to you!!! Shame on you to impose silence from people feeling discriminated!
@PM Camilleri
What both sides of the story?? We're not building up any story ... x'ghandu x'jaqsam!! The president, "as a true practicing Catholic" must have known that God is love!! At least, that's what I was taught!! So if a gay couple falls in love and wants to spend their life together, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT!!!!!!!
Issa l-President bil kliem sabieh kollu tighu, l-inkluzzjoni, anti diskriminazzjoni w integrazzjoni ta dawk u l-ohrajn, u ta fuq u tisfel, ta kulur isfar u ta' kulur vjola, issa ser ikollu joqghod attent minn kliemu x' jgid u jitlekellem.
Ghada w pitghada ikollom jaqtaw il-kelma iswed mid-dizzjunarju ghax jekk isemmiha il-President jakkuzawh li qed joffendi lill xi kategorija ohra.
Din jghidula il-famuza POLITICAL CORRECTNES!
Kif jghid il-Malti...............Inqlew b'zejtkhom
The only thing that makes a family is the bond of love between its components independently of what gender, skin colour, creed, nationality, and social statues these might have. I will never understand how a church that is based on the principle of love can keep failing to acknowledge this basic fact.
All this hullabaloo because gays feel offended etc is taking it a bit too much.
Having said that, I definitely agree that such households should have a degree of rights but for heaven's sake, let us call a spade a spade and be honest about it.
hadd ma interpreta lil president fil kuntest li qed jaghmel appel ghal familji aktar maghqudin, jew forsi ghal inqass familji imkissra, jew ghal inqas missiriejiet ji jaghmlu t tfall u ma jerfawx ir responsabilta, qed nghid missirijiet ghax normalment it tfal jibqaw ma l omm
From a civil rights perspective, that gays & lesbians need to have the liberty to express their sexuality and love, that is agreed.
However, to pull that forward and argue that such love has to have the right to develop into 'marriage' and thus become a 'family', with the right to adopt children, is in my view pushing the matter too far.
From a purely positioning perspective, trying to pursue the agenda for the latter, can also compromise the popular acceptance of the former.
Anyway while I don't really see anything wrong with gay and lesbian couples...I really am not sure if they should have children.
If it was natural for gay couples to have children wouldn't nature have made it possible for two people of the same sex to procreate?
And no I don't really see how the President excluded childless couples, adoptive parents and foster parents, single parents as the MGRM said. The issue are gay couples and not heterosexual couples who can't/decide not to have children or those who adopt.
I just think a child should have a mother and a father.
Persons forming a household ( which is not a natural family) have rights and obligations as a group, but they are not the same rights and obligations of the natural family group. This is not discrimination. It is reason and common sense and it is manifestly absurd to claim otherwise.
Well done Mr J Farrugia. Although I wouldn't say the whole population of Malta is narrow minded, it does often seem that way. I would go on to explain how wrong you are about what you said but I don t think it s worth repeating myself. Therefore, may i refere you to last saturday's article about the President's comments where I posted my comments.
"The less we hear from you the better"- I would say the same about you.
Remember Mr Farrugia that there could easily be a young teenager who has realized he/she is gay and who has read your comment which has added to their pain and fear of themselves which may result in the young teen thinking about suicide or actually planning it. You do not know what your words can do. I hope you are glad that you are helping to get rid of homosexuals by doing your bit to push them over the edge. Does that make you proud? Do you think God is happy that you are doing that?
There is nothing normal about a variant.
The President was right in defining marriage.
Those with a variant should find some other word to define their union.
Reality check: you don't. So please stop the hysteria, the less we hear from you the better.
Shouldn't we all have the same logical rights, by logical I mean li ma nigux b'certu pretenzjonijiet bazwin. Tipo, positive discrimination, eg. must have a women in boards by default. Must give children to gay couples by defauly (ghax hekk jridu hey), must have 3 black people in workplace by default (ghax inkella jghidu li razzisti). etc.. etc...
PS. I am not commenting about whether they are correct or not on the subject, just at how stupid this world has become with group rights et al.
The president here was mistaken - to hurt the feelings of minorities. They have rights, and need to be protected too. The least the president could do was to keep out of this debate - which is very important if Malta had to progress.
I am a bit disappointed with this event